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Florida High Shootings
Posted: 15 February 2018 09:16 AM   [ Ignore ]
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This is a subject that I really wished didn’t exist.  I have held back posting on this until I could get more information.  I appears another lone wolf, screwed up in the head, pissed off at the world, gave plenty of signs that he was disturbed and was still able to commit this act virtually unchecked.

Then I watch all of the news talking heads and they all dig in on their traditional talking points and make these issues a one solution fits all…the left in unison seems to think gun control solves everything…the Right is waffling and not really taking a specific position other than the bullshit generic “we need to have a national discussion”...

In my readings/research as the proliferation youth on social media in the last 20 years seems to have seen a spike in these mass shootings among young people.  I think these social media sites like Facebook, Instagram, etc.  have an obligation to not allow certain types of post to be allowed on their websites for the masses to see. They also should have an obligation to report to local authorities to anyone that demonstrates the potentially dangerous views as this shooter posted. I

It seems that schools, churches, sporting venues need to really ramp up security. This guy should never have been allowed in the build regardless of being armed and not.

The way guns are sold really needs to be re-evaluated.  Perhaps raising the minimum age to 21 like alcohol should be considered.  Certainly the mental condition of a person should be considered. Background checks should not only include criminal activity, but also history of mental issues and even a check of social media to see if they are displaying some sort of radicalization of violent propensities that would disqualify a person from being eligible.  Being a law abiding citizen isn’t enough…they need to be checked for some level of competency to own a gun.

There needs to be a total reworking of violence in America with with the matters that affects an individuals state of mind to compel them to carry out such violence.  It’s going to take politicians more concerned about doing the right thing rather than getting elected and citizens to stand up in unity and demand sweeping changes.

This is not a one item solution…. I think information overload with young people and the immaturity to process is a big of a threat than the weapon of choice.

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Posted: 15 February 2018 02:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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It’s a very sad and disturbing trend. I agree with you that a real solution involves a multi-faceted approach and an abandonment of narrow talking points. I think both sides of the aisle have poor leadership and a focus on party talking points and elections rather than really digging in and tackling a problem with something realistic. I think if we’re to have an honest conversation, we need to look beyond the gun and mental health treatment, though those certainly need to be addressed. Those are obviously important but come into play at the end of the sequence. As a society, we need to consider how we come to have kids develop into mass murders by such a young age. There are influences on kids’ development at home, school, among friends and broader society that combine to make the gun in that person’s hand such a disaster, and that sequence of events typically goes back years before culminating in a horrific tragedy. We need to look at how that happens and figure out how to be better as well as prevent the final act in the cases that get that far.

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Posted: 15 February 2018 11:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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100% age should be raised.  Might not change much, but it should happen.

I think security at school needs to be ramped up.  Make them walk through a metal detector before they get in a building, all day long visitors included.  You do it going in court houses and airports, why can’t you do it at school?  You will NEVER hear me complain about long security lines at the airport, because I’d much rather be safe and alive than move through a line quick and die to some nutjob.  Local PD or Sheriff can add more resource officers to monitor this.  Puts more officers on campus and if you want to look at other issues, increases jobs as well.  Heck I feel like even normal hired security could work this.  Criminals choose the weak to attack.  The unlocked cars, the empty houses, the elderly.  Just putting in a line of defense could do SO much good at these campuses.

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Posted: 16 February 2018 11:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Clem, you make a solid point of criminals taking the path of least resistance….I had rather turn schools into a high security facility and have safe kids rather than easy access…

This doesn’t just apply to mass shooters but terrorists too…The meek cannot inherit the Earth at this time…Unless they are wearing tactical gear.

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Posted: 16 February 2018 02:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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It’s being reported now that the FBI and probably other law enforcement agencies dropped the ball in a big way on investigating the shooter.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/16/alleged-florida-school-shooter-nikolas-cruz-was-reported-to-fbi-cops-school-but-warning-signs-missed.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5401101/FBI-knew-Nikolas-Cruz-stockpiling-weapons.html

No law is effective if not enforced….This appears to have been a situation that could have possibly if not probably been thwarted….


I smell some big lawsuits coming on this one

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Posted: 16 February 2018 04:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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That’s another thing that needs to happen.  Government agencies need to act and not drop the ball.

Just a topic of discussion as I had seen it suggested elsewhere, what do you think of hiring Veterans to do security at schools?  Not saying full combat kit or anything but these guys come out of the military with no job and no prospects, maybe working security at a school could be good for them and students.  Gives them a purpose in life.

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Posted: 16 February 2018 04:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Clemtgrs - 16 February 2018 04:28 PM

That’s another thing that needs to happen.  Government agencies need to act and not drop the ball.

Just a topic of discussion as I had seen it suggested elsewhere, what do you think of hiring Veterans to do security at schools?  Not saying full combat kit or anything but these guys come out of the military with no job and no prospects, maybe working security at a school could be good for them and students.  Gives them a purpose in life.

I don’t have a problem with that; I just don’t think individual schools would hire their own security in most cases. If they weren’t going to use police, I think it’s more likely that a district would contract with a company that would provide security across that district. I think it could be a great idea for that company to hire veterans.

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Posted: 16 February 2018 09:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Veterans aren’t a particularly stable group of people.  Many of them have trouble coming home.  Sending them to a school armed might not be a great idea.  Also if they were younger you would run into a lot of mingling with minors.  I’m not saying it’s impossible but would come with some complications.  Also per a rushed google search there are 22,000 high schools (no middle or below) in the US.  If their salary plus burden of just one guy in each school was 45K/year, which is very poor pay, it would cost $1B.  We already under-fund schools.  Where is that money coming from? 

The same thing happens every time.  The left wants change ranging from gun bans (an extreme minority) to a series of new regulations (close loopholes for purchasing, age change, mental checks, wait time, etc).  The right just screams “THEY ARE TRYING TO TAKE EVERYONE’S GUNS!  Remember the 2nd amendment!!! We just need MORE guns!!”.  Thanks to this fear-mongering nothing gets done except gun stock goes up, ammo is harder ($) to get, and the vastly inflated gun market gets a few more breaths of air in it.  And of course 8 months later 20 more people die and nothing gets done. 

At this point I’m convinced nothing will get done until a school full of republican politicians kids gets crushed and then they will give a shit.  Until then every shooting is practically a fundraising event for the right.

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Posted: 17 February 2018 10:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Interesting posts on a terrible topic.  As much as it stinks, politicos from both sides of the aisle will occurrences like this to advance their agenda(getting reelected).  I am a dad with school aged children, I am a vet, former police officer and a business owner.  Oh, and I am a gun owner.  That said, I have no issues with enforcing our current gun laws and even strengthening them some by incorporating some common sense additions within our in-placre legal framework that places accountability for gun ownership not only with legislators and law enforcement (to draft the law and to enforce that law), but the gun owner as well.  Meaning, a little more rigor in vetting a law abiding citizens background prior to purchsae should not cause any significant concern among the law abiding citizenry.  This, coupled with some responsible legislation to place accountabiliy among the sociall media carriers may be somewhat effective in curtailing these events.  I am fairly conservative and several of my acquaintances share my views on this.  Lots of work to be done folks.  Oh, to provide security in schools, taxation would likely come into play (which I support).  Security is expensive.  One thing that I propose is collaboration among qualified professionals (LE for example) to develop threat assessments and action plans that school systems would receive pro bono.  I am reaching out next eeek in my old LE circles and via my bus. F/B page looking for partners in this effort to volunteer.  Plan on using my office after hours as a meeting site.  If I can assemble a dedicatef team, I’ll post an update or two on any measurable actions going forward.

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Posted: 17 February 2018 10:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Veterans aren’t a particularly stable group of people.  Many of them have trouble coming home.  Sending them to a school armed might not be a great idea.  Also if they were younger you would run into a lot of mingling with minors.  I’m not saying it’s impossible but would come with some complications.  Also per a rushed google search there are 22,000 high schools (no middle or below) in the US.  If their salary plus burden of just one guy in each school was 45K/year, which is very poor pay, it would cost $1B.  We already under-fund schools.  Where is that money coming from?


I agree..It sounds good at first thought, but you are very correct on this.  I think the lack of teachers being disciplinarians like they were when I was a kid (I’m 54) has affected conduct. When I went to school the thought of back-talking a teacher or acting as unruly as they are allowed to do was simply unheard of for fear of the consequences.  I remember acting out of line once and I got my ass lit up at school and when dad found out I received a second round.  I got the message….Now the lunatics are running the asylum which is why home schooling is becoming more popular.

The same thing happens every time.  The left wants change ranging from gun bans (an extreme minority) to a series of new regulations (close loopholes for purchasing, age change, mental checks, wait time, etc).  The right just screams “THEY ARE TRYING TO TAKE EVERYONE’S GUNS!  Remember the 2nd amendment!!! We just need MORE guns!!”.  Thanks to this fear-mongering nothing gets done except gun stock goes up, ammo is harder ($) to get, and the vastly inflated gun market gets a few more breaths of air in it.  And of course 8 months later 20 more people die and nothing gets done.

The left was screaming at the top of their lungs as they always do for gun control…The right definitely takes their traditional stance until the crisis is over and nothing happens…Both sides are political whores that only want to use these events for political gain because if the matter ever truly went away they would have to find something else to bloviate about.

It’s only been a few days after this tragedy and whats leading the news? Freaking Russia…Mueller’s team indicted a bunch of Russians and said that no America was involved and the media is all over that story acting as if the shooting is only a footnote and that’s the real tragedy.

At this point I’m convinced nothing will get done until a school full of republican politicians kids gets crushed and then they will give a shit.  Until then every shooting is practically a fundraising event for the right.

I think we have had enough mass shootings to have the point made.  Quickest think everyone should be able to agree to is creating the strongest security possible in venues where mass shootings can occur, but that won’t stop it..Vans and Bombs are just as easy to use to kill people.

In this particular shooting, this kid was visited by the police 39 times, was expelled, was reported to the FBI and they knew about it and have admitted the dropped the ball.  This kid had no business passing a background check and that is in part my problem with new gun laws..they have to be enforced to work.  We had laws in place that should have prevented this kid from buying a gun legally. (I am sure he would have acquired one through illegal means if he was as intent on carrying out this attack as he obviously was.)

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“I’ve trained myself not to laugh or smile. I watched a hundred hours of the Three Stooges; every time I felt like smiling or laughing, I jabbed myself in the stomach with a cattle prod.”

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Posted: 17 February 2018 12:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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“I think we have had enough mass shootings to have the point made.  “

Obviously we haven’t for the right.  The right is in control and has been for most of the last 17 years and nothing has been done.  We can’t even go a year without a new shooting so it’s not like they’ve had the opportunity to forget. 
I believe most of them are scared of the far right that screams about the “slippery slope” (ignoring the fact that we have many gun laws already) and think it would be political suicide to try to make some progress.  So instead they ignore the problem until it isn’t a headline and nothing happens. 


Yes he could have got one illegally but how many kids know where to get shady guns?  Probably not many outside of Chicago.  Either way even one more step to make it inconvenient to get a gun will help. 


Keep in mind I’m a gun owner that has hunted for 20 years.  Even if it took 6 months to buy a gun it really wouldn’t bother me.  I’ll never NEED a gun so badly that I can’t wait to get it.

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Posted: 17 February 2018 01:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Here’s my problem with the left…They operate on one single-minded track that Gun Control will solve everything…Regardless of it that is truly the case or not is not the message that get’s broadcast…The right interprets what the Democrats want as Gun Confiscation rather than Gun Control….

I know you are dumping on the Republicans and I get it, but until society puts this on both parties to stop stoking the embers and really decided to truly come up with solutions that require evaluating existing guns laws and making sure whatever new regulation is introduced is enforceable….Also, we have serious cultural, mental heat, child rearing and law enforcement issues that will take generations to sort out unless there is a true national effort to change the way society operates.

A/O..let’s say we get everything a guy like you wants with regards to gun control..do you really think this will solve societies problems with violence?  Lord I wised it would!

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“I’ve trained myself not to laugh or smile. I watched a hundred hours of the Three Stooges; every time I felt like smiling or laughing, I jabbed myself in the stomach with a cattle prod.”

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Posted: 17 February 2018 04:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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“They operate on one single-minded track that Gun Control will solve everything…”
When did the left say “THIS will solve ALL gun problems!”?  I haven’t seen it.  Don’t misrepresent my side with a blanket statement like that.  My frustrations with the right is they are completely unwilling to address the tool that is doing the killing.  Even common sense law like gunshow/private background checks are stonewalled. 

Again, the republicans have been in control for most of the last 17+ years and I can’t think of a single piece of legislation that has been put in place to help curtail this problem.  Everything the left suggest is leveraged into scaring gun nuts into buying more guns. 

Mental health, age, gunshow loophole, try something.  I can tell you one thing for certain, continuing to do NOTHING will result in more deaths.  Nobody is pretending to have a cure all for this problem.

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Posted: 17 February 2018 06:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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When did the left say “THIS will solve ALL gun problems!”?


As I said..that is the way the message is being interpreted.  That has a lot to do with the way the Liberal Media is screaming gun control so loudly that nothing else can be heard.  When the message is so single-minded how can people think otherwise that they feel this will solve the problem?


Much of I what you are suggesting I have no problem with..but you are doing some blanket statements as well….

Politicians are motivated by money and power than doing the right thing…Democrats and Republicans like to keep these election year issues unresolved for political fodder..

 

 

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Posted: 17 February 2018 08:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Ancient, you are politicising these events.  The same thing is occurring with our college kids—eagerly absorbing everything that mainstream media conveys to the masses.  You should go out and get a different perspective maybe.  I usually lean a little right and I do think we need to reexamine our gun related laws.  What pisses me off is when I hear people repeat either ideology or opinions obtained by watching national news.  Case in point, I am not promoting or supporting the status quo when it comes to guns.  How does the left (your lean I guess) categorize someone like me?  You likely have no idea as you may be following assumptions of those who likely are not really representing what is important to you.  I am trying very hard daily not to become cynical with the political lean that is present day USA, but its tough.  We as a society really need to separate ourselves from media and Hollywood influence and converse with one another.

Summary:  political interjection in this matter is more toxic in todays climate than it is helpful. Lets focus on the tasks at hand: mental health issues, social media reform (gun law reform as well), and one more thing…let’s turn an apolitical eye to the largest social influence of all- Hollywood.  An entirely separate post but a two headed snake (promoting violence, sex,etc) yet these actors, singers, athletes are the 1st ones to use their status to point fingers about many of the social ills that they profit from.

Apologies for a rambling post-my little ones are trying every trick in the book to get me off of this phone!  Im out.

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Posted: 18 February 2018 11:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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The politicians on both sides have no real interest in doing anything effective about the problem. They say what they can to fire up their base and point fingers. We as a public join right along with it but the discussion is little more than a debate of which is better - Band-Aid or Curad.

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