Honestly, the righties are obviously trying to lose this election. Perhaps setting up a win against Clinton in 2016 or something. First they put up Mitt. And, they put him up knowing he won’t show his tax returns. Then they pick Ryan who is perhaps the most radical nut in America. Every single thing Bush did to drive us into the this ditch including Wars, Bush’s Tax cuts, Med Care Part D… all of it Ryan voted for.
Look at this graph and this is FACT. No slant, nothing but the numbers…. real numbers of how Paul and Mitt plan to pull us out of their economic mess from the Bush years. Do you honestly think the majority of American people are going to vote to completely eliminate income tax on the 1%? And, pulling us out of the mess from the last time they tried this by raising income tax on the middle class?
I say this without even mentioning that they want to eliminate Medicare turning it into a voucher program and completely gutting Medicaid. And that’s also not even mentioning health care.
If anyone, ANYONE…. thinks people outside of the south and perhaps a few other states will vote for this your NUTS. This is a freaking JOKE.
Now, with that said, do you think the republicans are purposely trying to lose this cycle?
Note: Figures do not include impact of replacing exclusion for employer-provided health benefits with credit for health insurance.
Obama baseline excludes temporary extension of the Making Work Pay Credit.
Reading this “report” here are the assumptions made:
Assumptions Used in Modeling Ryan Plan and the Obama Plan
These estimates assume that the House GOP plan (as presented by Congressman Paul Ryan) would:
1. Make permanent the Bush income tax cuts.
2. Eliminate income taxes on capital gains, dividends and interest.
3. Eliminate the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT).
4. Create an optional, “simplified” tax that would include:
a. A standard deduction of $12,500 ($25,000 for married couples).
b. Personal exemptions of $3,500.
c. Just two rates, 10% for the first $100,000 in taxable income for married couples ($50,000 for others) and 25% for taxable income beyond.
d. No tax on capital gains, dividends and interest.
e. No Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT).
f. We assume that taxpayers will file under the “simplified” tax only when doing so saves them money.
5. Eliminate the estate tax.
6. Eliminate the corporate income tax.
7. Create an 8.5 percent value-added tax (VAT).
These estimates assume that President Obama’s budget plan would:
1. Extend the Bush cuts in income tax rates except for the top two brackets.
2. Adjust the brackets so that no unmarried taxpayer with AGI below $200,000 or married taxpayer with AGI below $250,000 loses their rate
reduction.
3. Extend the Bush cut in the special, low rate for capital gains except for the top two brackets.
4. Partially extend the Bush rate cut for dividends (keeping the rate for dividends equal to the special rate for capital gains).
5. Extend the Bush repeal of the personal exemption phase-out (PEP) and the limit on itemized deductions (Pease) only for taxpayers with AGI
below $200,000 for unmarried taxpayers and $250,000 for married taxpayers.
6. Make permanent the expansion of the Earned Income Tax Credit in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA).
7. Make permanent the expansion of the Child Tax Credit (CTC) in ARRA.
8. Limit itemized deductions to 28 percent of the amount deducted.
9. Make permanent the estate tax rules that were in effect in 2009 (a per-spouse exemption of $3.5 million an
This little hit piece you are using sure makes a lot of assumptions….
A couple of thoughts…..As unemployment undoubtedly go down, the tax paying base will increase thus generating more revenues….
An 8.5 VAT something that will generate some serious revenue that is spread across the board. The wealthy buy more stuff and an 8.5 VAT gets more money out of their pockets that they cannot hide and it goes straight into the economy….also, a foreign visitors and illegals that buy anything get to participate in a VAT which is something that is not happening right now…..
I am sure if I wanted to, I could find a reports that contradicts everything you just said…....But it really wouldn’t matter.
Note: Figures do not include impact of replacing exclusion for employer-provided health benefits with credit for health insurance.
Obama baseline excludes temporary extension of the Making Work Pay Credit.
Reading this “report” here are the assumptions made:
Assumptions Used in Modeling Ryan Plan and the Obama Plan
These estimates assume that the House GOP plan (as presented by Congressman Paul Ryan) would:
1. Make permanent the Bush income tax cuts.
2. Eliminate income taxes on capital gains, dividends and interest.
3. Eliminate the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT).
4. Create an optional, “simplified” tax that would include:
a. A standard deduction of $12,500 ($25,000 for married couples).
b. Personal exemptions of $3,500.
c. Just two rates, 10% for the first $100,000 in taxable income for married couples ($50,000 for others) and 25% for taxable income beyond.
d. No tax on capital gains, dividends and interest.
e. No Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT).
f. We assume that taxpayers will file under the “simplified” tax only when doing so saves them money.
5. Eliminate the estate tax.
6. Eliminate the corporate income tax.
7. Create an 8.5 percent value-added tax (VAT).
These estimates assume that President Obama’s budget plan would:
1. Extend the Bush cuts in income tax rates except for the top two brackets.
2. Adjust the brackets so that no unmarried taxpayer with AGI below $200,000 or married taxpayer with AGI below $250,000 loses their rate
reduction.
3. Extend the Bush cut in the special, low rate for capital gains except for the top two brackets.
4. Partially extend the Bush rate cut for dividends (keeping the rate for dividends equal to the special rate for capital gains).
5. Extend the Bush repeal of the personal exemption phase-out (PEP) and the limit on itemized deductions (Pease) only for taxpayers with AGI
below $200,000 for unmarried taxpayers and $250,000 for married taxpayers.
6. Make permanent the expansion of the Earned Income Tax Credit in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA).
7. Make permanent the expansion of the Child Tax Credit (CTC) in ARRA.
8. Limit itemized deductions to 28 percent of the amount deducted.
9. Make permanent the estate tax rules that were in effect in 2009 (a per-spouse exemption of $3.5 million an
This little hit piece you are using sure makes a lot of assumptions….
A couple of thoughts…..As unemployment undoubtedly go down, the tax paying base will increase thus generating more revenues….
An 8.5 VAT something that will generate some serious revenue that is spread across the board. The wealthy buy more stuff and an 8.5 VAT gets more money out of their pockets that they cannot hide and it goes straight into the economy….also, a foreign visitors and illegals that buy anything get to participate in a VAT which is something that is not happening right now…..
I am sure if I wanted to, I could find a reports that contradicts everything you just said…....But it really wouldn’t matter.
Oh you miss understood me. I didn’t make my post to debate it. It’s facts.
I made the post to ask if anybody thought the righties were throwing the election. I’m not debating numbers here. It won’t make any difference to you or anyone else likely who reads a southern website. I wonder how could anyone, including you, sit and watch George Bush drive us into a depression, then welcome Batman and Robin who want to do the exact same thing even before President Obama can execute his plan WITHOUT obstructionists sitting in Congress. I’ll answer that for you…... because you don’t care, it’s embedded into because of likely your culture and most of all, MOST OF ALL, you can’t admit, or your types can’t admit, that the trickle down DOES NOT WORK.
After 4 more years of Obama, 8 years of Clinton perhaps the Republican party will reorganize and be able to see the forest and the trees verses just the trees. But likely not, there will be new party down the middle of the republican party. Right between the radicals and moderates. When you get there, at least you’ll be able to contend. Right now you can’t obviously. Look at who is driving your ship.
Nice source. Do you read The American Prospect too?
Here’s a quote from ITEP’s site: ITEP is governed by a group of leaders from academia, labor, and the policy community
One of whom is VP Robert Kuttner. Kuttner is the co-founder and current co-editor of The American Prospect, which was created in 1990 as “an authoritative magazine of liberal ideas,” according to its mission statement.
Also on the BOD is noted lefty Robert Reich, and a host of other liberals.
I’ll provide links for everybody so they can see what your source is all about and decide for themselves whether to take them seriously.
Nice source. Do you read The American Prospect too?
Here’s a quote from ITEP’s site: ITEP is governed by a group of leaders from academia, labor, and the policy community
One of whom is VP Robert Kuttner. Kuttner is the co-founder and current co-editor of The American Prospect, which was created in 1990 as “an authoritative magazine of liberal ideas,” according to its mission statement.
Also on the BOD is noted lefty Robert Reich, and a host of other liberals.
I’ll provide links for everybody so they can see what your source is all about and decide for themselves whether to take them seriously.
On topic there Slappy…. thanks. Again, I’m not debating the numbers. Mitt clearly has made his positions known…. lol however Ryan sure has.
Believe this or not Slappy, but not every source is like Fox. For that matter, there are many sources out there. You should perhaps try them sometimes. Those are numbers, from facts. I don’t give a crap who put them together, they are what they are.
Anyway back to the point. Do you think the Republicans are throwing the election?
The Republicans wouldn’t be out-raising BHO if they were throwing it…...Team Romney has been keeping their power dry why The Obama hit squad spends all of their efforts and money on the Character assassination of Romney due to the fact that Obama cannot run of his record…..They are hemorrhaging cash to only be at a basic dead heat…
Now that Romney has his VP, they are about to unless their war chest of cash and open up on Obama…..
There is no anticipated good new in the economy between now and the election for Obama…all he has to look forward to is another few months of weak jobs numbers and having to explain to Americans why their taxes and food prices are going up, while unemployment is not improving…..
Team R&R really does not have to go personal in Obama attacks…they economy is so bad and Obama’s record is plenty enough fodder for them to take the high ground while making Team BHO look like personal and divisive attacks is all the chosen one has left in the tank….
President Obama can run on his record, and will. Remember, nothing he’s attempted has passed Congress including job bill after job bill after job bill. He’s created more jobs in 3.8 years than Bush did in 8. And that’s working against Mitch McConnell who said his only job was to make him a one term President which obviously was a team goal since the congress refuses to do anything to help him which helps us which is an incredibly un-American position to take considering the righties are always saying they are so pro America.
When you have that guy in Vegas who’s controlling countries with his money and this election cycle, money or what they raised and will raise doesn’t mean anything because if they win local stuff they can kill America in President Obama’s 2nd term by again doing nothing.
I think they are throwing it because in some weird way they believe Paul Ryan can beat Clinton in 2016. There is no way Mitt can beat Obama, and they know it. Why in the heck would they have forced him to pick Ryan if they honestly thought they had a real chance?
Nice source. Do you read The American Prospect too?
Here’s a quote from ITEP’s site: ITEP is governed by a group of leaders from academia, labor, and the policy community
One of whom is VP Robert Kuttner. Kuttner is the co-founder and current co-editor of The American Prospect, which was created in 1990 as “an authoritative magazine of liberal ideas,” according to its mission statement.
Also on the BOD is noted lefty Robert Reich, and a host of other liberals.
I’ll provide links for everybody so they can see what your source is all about and decide for themselves whether to take them seriously.
On topic there Slappy…. thanks. Again, I’m not debating the numbers. Mitt clearly has made his positions known…. lol however Ryan sure has.
Believe this or not Slappy, but not every source is like Fox. For that matter, there are many sources out there. You should perhaps try them sometimes. Those are numbers, from facts. I don’t give a crap who put them together, they are what they are.
Anyway back to the point. Do you think the Republicans are throwing the election?
First off, stupid question. Of course they’re not throwing the election.
What makes your propaganda any more valid than the other side’s? Your ‘facts’ are cute, but they’re hardly truth. Everybody knows that if you torture numbers long enough they’ll tell you what you want to hear. Your sources clearly have an agenda, therefore I don’t accept their so-called conclusions. If I posted a tax model from the American Enterprise Institute and claimed it to be absolute fact, you’d laugh your ass off as I’m now doing at you.
Do you really believe that the news channels or blogs that you frequent are any less biased than Fox news? I’ve got some news for you. There is no straight-up, non-partisan media left in this country, if there ever was any to begin with. Your thoughts and beliefs are validated so what they say must be the truth, right? I hate to burst your bubble, but you are no more enlightened or informed than I am. Want some advice? Drop the condescension, it makes you look like a jerk. The funny thing is Fox News wouldn’t exist if the mainstream media wasn’t so biased toward the left. Liberals indirectly created that which they despise the most. Classic.
I’m skeptical of any claim a politician makes regardless of the D or R in front of his/her name. I want somebody to press them to defend their argument or back up assertions with facts. This is the media’s true purpose and why they were given such freedoms in the Constitution. They’re supposed to be the unelected citizen’s check on government, the people’s watchdog. Sadly, all we get is regurgitation of the unverified. It’s either PR or hit pieces. So yes, I watch Fox News though it’s not my only source of news. I get the same basic information I would get from the others without being insulted every five minutes. I can filter out the obvious propaganda just the same as if I were watching CNN, but with Fox I just roll my eyes. CNN makes me want to put my foot through my flatscreen.
Though I lean conservative in matters of governance and fiscal policy, I’m more interested in right and wrong than right and left. I’m an atheist, but I respect the role of religion in society and support religious freedom. I’m pro-choice as a utilitarian matter. Unwanted children are a drain on society and contribute greatly to crime and the cycle of poverty. I think marijuana should be de-criminalized, if not legalized. I think gays should be allowed to marry. Why should only straight people get to experience the wonders of divorce and custody hearings and alimony (how would this work? pitcher pays?)?
Try as you may to put those of us with the temerity to oppose The Chosen One in a conveniently labeled box, it simply won’t work. It’s not just southerners or neo-cons or TEA partiers. The ass-kicking the Democrats took in 2010 was nationwide at all levels of state and federal government.
Nice source. Do you read The American Prospect too?
Here’s a quote from ITEP’s site: ITEP is governed by a group of leaders from academia, labor, and the policy community
One of whom is VP Robert Kuttner. Kuttner is the co-founder and current co-editor of The American Prospect, which was created in 1990 as “an authoritative magazine of liberal ideas,” according to its mission statement.
Also on the BOD is noted lefty Robert Reich, and a host of other liberals.
I’ll provide links for everybody so they can see what your source is all about and decide for themselves whether to take them seriously.
On topic there Slappy…. thanks. Again, I’m not debating the numbers. Mitt clearly has made his positions known…. lol however Ryan sure has.
Believe this or not Slappy, but not every source is like Fox. For that matter, there are many sources out there. You should perhaps try them sometimes. Those are numbers, from facts. I don’t give a crap who put them together, they are what they are.
Anyway back to the point. Do you think the Republicans are throwing the election?
First off, stupid question. Of course they’re not throwing the election. This isn’t a stupid question. After watching the rep. debates and seeing Mitt, and now seeing Mitt selected Ryan, it’s far from a stupid question.
What makes your propaganda any more valid than the other side’s? Your ‘facts’ are cute, but they’re hardly truth. Everybody knows that if you torture numbers long enough they’ll tell you what you want to hear. Your sources clearly have an agenda, therefore I don’t accept their so-called conclusions. If I posted a tax model from the American Enterprise Institute and claimed it to be absolute fact, you’d laugh your ass off as I’m now doing at you.
Do you really believe that the news channels or blogs that you frequent are any less biased than Fox news? I’ve got some news for you. There is no straight-up, non-partisan media left in this country, if there ever was any to begin with. Your thoughts and beliefs are validated so what they say must be the truth, right? I hate to burst your bubble, but you are no more enlightened or informed than I am. Want some advice? Drop the condescension, it makes you look like a jerk. The funny thing is Fox News wouldn’t exist if the mainstream media wasn’t so biased toward the left. Liberals indirectly created that which they despise the most. Classic. Couple of things here. I watch Fox News every morning. I watch CNN in the evening and watch Rachel Maddow in the evening sometimes. I watch it all, read it all. I form my own opinions. I’ve voted Rep. my whole life until Bush’s 2nd term.
I’m skeptical of any claim a politician makes regardless of the D or R in front of his/her name. I want somebody to press them to defend their argument or back up assertions with facts. This is the media’s true purpose and why they were given such freedoms in the Constitution. They’re supposed to be the unelected citizen’s check on government, the people’s watchdog. Sadly, all we get is regurgitation of the unverified. It’s either PR or hit pieces. So yes, I watch Fox News though it’s not my only source of news. I get the same basic information I would get from the others without being insulted every five minutes. I can filter out the obvious propaganda just the same as if I were watching CNN, but with Fox I just roll my eyes. CNN makes me want to put my foot through my flatscreen.
Though I lean conservative in matters of governance and fiscal policy, I’m more interested in right and wrong than right and left. We agree here. I’m an atheist, but I respect the role of religion in society and support religious freedom. We don’t agree here. I believe in a higher power. I’m pro-choice as a utilitarian matter. Unwanted children are a drain on society and contribute greatly to crime and the cycle of poverty. Completely agree. I think marijuana should be de-criminalized, if not legalized. Completely agree I think gays should be allowed to marry. Why should only straight people get to experience the wonders of divorce and custody hearings and alimony (how would this work? pitcher pays?)? I agree I guess, I don’t really care what gay people do, it’s not my business.
Try as you may to put those of us with the temerity to oppose The Chosen One Talking Point in a conveniently labeled box, it simply won’t work. It’s not just southerners or neo-cons or TEA partiers. The ass-kicking the Democrats took in 2010 was nationwide at all levels of state and federal government. The ass kicking your talking about was about big money buying the election cycle, mis information being spread about Obama’s policies and a low turnout on the Dem’s
News I watch and Read: (this will shock you a tad)
1. Huffington Post
2. Fox New
3. MSNBC
I don’t need to watch a lot from my own side because I don’t need my ego or beliefs stroked. The Huffington Post is where I read/spare a lot. They have the best format as far as user friendly and interactive. I needs the opposition views to challenge and reinforce my beliefs. Also, the HP has a lot of variety and good non-partisan articles. Fox is very Red Meat in the evening and I only watch a little bit of O’Reilly, but in the Evening I am done with news and want to relax.
BTW, I think TB12 may be the only person CNN has left as American viewers..
I am Conservative with a Libertarian Lean…I want the federal government out of about as much as possible…but I also think The Fed has “right amount” that we are not close to. Much of the issues such as abortion, Gay marriage, pot smoking etc should be left to each state as outlined in the 10th Amendment and allow citizens to live as they see fit…...The Folks in ultra conservative and Ultra Mormon Utah should not have to live the same way the people is California live for example.
I definitely believe in God. Raised a Southern Baptist but have moved into independent Christian. Churches tend to piss me off as they make themselves bigger than the gospel which is why we have so many denominations. I wish I could live the way I should, but Freewill is a B*tch
and it gets us in trouble.
Abortion IMO is a crime against humanity. It is the willful killing of an unborn child and the pro-choice people offend me when the use sterile clinical terms like “fetus” to not call it what it is…........With that said, it is a painfully necessary evil that as both of you describe is a way to keep the herds down in the most high risk categories of society. I tend to think of Abortion as the great failure of human society ever…and it must continue sadly.
Gay Marriage: Personally I am against it. I am a nurture over nature type of guy. I don’t think it is a natural human action. No society can naturally sustain itself if they were gay. That is science, not religion. Again, with that said, I would not vote against gay that wanted to get married as that is their business…...but I don’t support gays adopting children. I believe that parents should be male and female as nature intended it to be. Gays in the military…don’t care. Keeps draft dodges from having one more excuse to not serve if needed.
Finally, Obama will lose. Now that Mitt has chosen someone well qualified and highly intellectual, good looking and conservative, Obama only had Joe Biden…..LOL.
Honestly, the righties are obviously trying to lose this election. Perhaps setting up a win against Clinton in 2016 or something. First they put up Mitt. And, they put him up knowing he won’t show his tax returns. Then they pick Ryan who is perhaps the most radical nut in America. Every single thing Bush did to drive us into the this ditch including Wars, Bush’s Tax cuts, Med Care Part D… all of it Ryan voted for.
Look at this graph and this is FACT. No slant, nothing but the numbers…. real numbers of how Paul and Mitt plan to pull us out of their economic mess from the Bush years. Do you honestly think the majority of American people are going to vote to completely eliminate income tax on the 1%? And, pulling us out of the mess from the last time they tried this by raising income tax on the middle class?
I say this without even mentioning that they want to eliminate Medicare turning it into a voucher program and completely gutting Medicaid. And that’s also not even mentioning health care.
If anyone, ANYONE…. thinks people outside of the south and perhaps a few other states will vote for this your NUTS. This is a freaking JOKE.
Now, with that said, do you think the republicans are purposely trying to lose this cycle?
I hope you all didn’t forget this post I made back in August of 2012. If you have forgot, I’ll remind you.
