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I cannot even fathom how BAD Clemson is at Basketball.
Posted: 14 February 2013 10:09 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Thats all, just terrible.  We shouldn’t even field a basketball team then we can have a bigger football budget.

And yes I realize we won tonight…barely.

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2014 BCS Orange Bowl Champions
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“First team from the state of South Carolina to win a BCS bowl” - Dabo Swinney

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Posted: 15 February 2013 01:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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The free-throws is what kills me the most.  I mean seriously how are we always terrible at the simplest part of basketball? 

To be honest.  From what I’ve seen in the 6 years I spent at Clemson and lightly following basketball is a need for more playing time as a group.  I honestly believe that the players would benefit from going to Fike and playing pickup ball.  There are some damn good teams there that know how to play together.  I’ve seen mistakes from our team that would never happen on the top court in Fike.  They might have to tweak things against smaller teams (not that our team is very tall) but play defense in a position where it gives the offensive player more of a chance.  Basically play defense on “hard mode” so you don’t just smother the smaller teams but still have an opportunity to operate as a unit.  They would work together better and gain some confidence.  If they really asked they could probably get some bigger guys to get a scrimmage team together to play against as better competition.

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Posted: 15 February 2013 10:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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So are we all ready to say I was right yet, and that BB is not the best coach for Clemson?  I don’t want to have to wait and every 4-5 years when we’re loaded with seniors before we can actually make it to a tournament.  OP did it 4 consecutive years in a row, and layed the foundation for BB to do it his first year with OP’s players.

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Posted: 15 February 2013 02:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Unless I missed something and Clemson brought in a half-dozen Jr/Sr transfers before conference play, nothing’s change since you lost this argument weeks ago.  There’s only one upperclassman that could remotely be called consistent.  Milt goes off for 28 then doesn’t get that much the next 4 games.  Still, the Tigers are two buzzer-beaters away from being 7-5 and in 4th place in the ACC. 
UNC is 6-5 with a roster full of 5*s.  Why?  Experience matters
Miami is 11-0 after going 9-7 last year and 6-10 the year before.  Why?  Experience matters. 
Try being realistic for once.  I said before, if he can’t get it done when these kids are Jrs and Srs, then I’ll call for his head.  Until then, get over it.  BB is not going anywhere for a while.

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Posted: 15 February 2013 02:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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You still ignore the fact that if we do have a good team when they’re all Jr’s and Sr’s and then they graduate, we’ll have to wait another 3-4 years for BB’s “system” to pick back up again.  We’ll officially label ourselves as the WF’s football system for basketball.  We won’t know until 3-4 years if our players suck…

Players like Stitt, Mays, T. Booker, Rivers, Oglesby, etc were all similarly not highly recruited out of HS, yet they were all pretty good talents very early in their careers.  So either BB’s a horrible at talent analysis, or doesn’t know how to play to players stregnths. 

For the 15th millionth time, we will never be able to play a slow-paced, out-scheme, defensive first type of play in the ACC, we are outmanned and outgunned.  This is the same reason that Boise State didn’t try to line it up and run right at Oklahoma in the Sugar bowl years ago.  We will never get these elite talented guys, but we can get guys who are faster and more athletic and work with that.  OP realized that and played to that stregnth.  That’s why he was the only coach (I’m assuming) in Clemson history to take us to 4 straight NCAA tourney’s.  Someone once showed us how to be successful at Clemson on a consistant basis, then when he left we said “no thanks we’re good, let’s pretend to be Michigan State.”

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Posted: 15 February 2013 07:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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You like OP, I get it but your hate of BB is unjustified and quite honestly, ridiculous. OP left us in a mess, BB has won everywhere he has been and will do so at Clemson. Not everything falls into the “I can fix it in one year” mode. Depaul is awful and yet they have the same OP coaching them. Is that bad luck? an anomoly? No, it’s talent…. and he’s coaching in CHICAGO which has more people than the entire state of SC and is a HUGE basketball envrionment.

Get a grip or at least make sense. BB needs two more years; he has two likely starters out due to injuries, two seniors (one being a pothead), no juniors. What did you expect?? 20-5??

Ask Gonzaga and Arizona if they think BB can build a winning program.

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Posted: 15 February 2013 08:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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O&P has a fair point.  Not to mention BB has had roughly the same amount of success in the NCAA tourney as OP but with a “lesser” team.

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Posted: 16 February 2013 12:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Tickle_It - 15 February 2013 02:39 PM

You still ignore the fact that if we do have a good team when they’re all Jr’s and Sr’s and then they graduate, we’ll have to wait another 3-4 years for BB’s “system” to pick back up again.  We’ll officially label ourselves as the WF’s football system for basketball.  We won’t know until 3-4 years if our players suck…
Your scholarship concerns are unfounded.  BB is doing the best given the situation he was put in.  He’s got 4 scholarships to give after this season (Booker, Jennings, Sapp, Harrison).  He’s got 2 recruits signed plus redshirt Blossomgame for next years class.  So, there’s at least 2 schollys available for 2014 not counting any transfers or someone like KJ going pro after next year. They only give 13 schollys to split among 4 classes.  Nobody has a perfectly even distribution.  Like it or not, we are the Wake Forest of ACC bball.  Developing talent through coaching and experience is how we’ll compete in this league.

Players like Stitt, Mays, T. Booker, Rivers, Oglesby, etc were all similarly not highly recruited out of HS, yet they were all pretty good talents very early in their careers.  So either BB’s a horrible at talent analysis, or doesn’t know how to play to players stregnths. 
First off, Trevor was a unique talent.  Clemson gets a player like that about every 20 years.  The rest of the guys were hardly ACC-ready, your memory is being generous to their early contributions.
Rivers as a Frosh:  25mpg, 37.7%FG/33.6%3pt, 7ppg.  Rivers improved greatly from year one to year two (14ppg), but he didn’t get any better after that.  Check the stats.
Stitt as a frosh:  22.8mpg, 40.8%FG/27.6%3pt, 8ppg.  His Soph year was about the same.  He was a 4yr starter at PG, but didn’t learn how to drive to the basket (something Hall and Filer already do better) until his Sr. yr when BB got there.
Oglesby was a chucker.  He was good at chucking, but his 3pt% was higher than his FG%.  And he quit on the team.  Yeah, need more of those guys.
James Mays as a frosh:  16mpg, 46%FG, 3.4 reb/game, 4.3ppg
            as a soph:  24mpg, 9.2ppg
The same could be said for Vernon Hamilton, Cliff Hammonds, Andre Young, Jerai Grant, etc…

For the 15th millionth time, we will never be able to play a slow-paced, out-scheme, defensive first type of play in the ACC, we are outmanned and outgunned.  For the 15th millionth time I choose to disregard your opinion which is not based in fact.  Sorry.  This is the same reason that Boise State didn’t try to line it up and run right at Oklahoma in the Sugar bowl years ago.  We will never get these elite talented guys (like defense-first 8-3 UVA has?), but we can get guys who are faster and more athletic and work with that.  OP realized that and played to that stregnth.  That’s why he was the only coach (I’m assuming) in Clemson history to take us to 4 straight NCAA tourney’s.  Someone once showed us how to be successful at Clemson on a consistant basis, then when he left we said “no thanks we’re good, let’s pretend to be Michigan State.”

Like I said before, it’s a matter of preference.  I’d rather have a capable, fundamentally sound, legit contender every few years than a gimmicky fraud every year.  If all you need are athletes and OP, why is DePaul still the worst team in the BE with a huge city full of athletes to recruit from?

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Posted: 16 February 2013 01:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Orange&Purple; - 15 February 2013 07:08 PM

You like OP, I get it but your hate of BB is unjustified and quite honestly, ridiculous. OP left us in a mess, BB has won everywhere he has been and will do so at Clemson. Not everything falls into the “I can fix it in one year” mode. Depaul is awful and yet they have the same OP coaching them. Is that bad luck? an anomoly? No, it’s talent…. and he’s coaching in CHICAGO which has more people than the entire state of SC and is a HUGE basketball envrionment.

Get a grip or at least make sense. BB needs two more years; he has two likely starters out due to injuries, two seniors (one being a pothead), no juniors. What did you expect?? 20-5??

Ask Gonzaga and Arizona if they think BB can build a winning program.

Ask Coastal Carolina and College of Charleston if they think BB can build a winning program…

I didn’t expect to go 20-5, never said that.  I just expected a little more consistancy out of this program.  One night we hold a team to <60, then we give up 80 and lose by 20.  And this consistant year in and year out losing to D2 schools in state is incredibly embaressing.

Next year’s team will be his 4th year here.  He had one good year, and that was with the previous coach’s players, you can’t deny that. After we choke next year with all of his players and his scheme, you will have the proof in front of your eyes. 

And btw, it’s not just me that’s taking notice, what has Little John Arena been looking like lately?  Why has our new AD been talking about trying to find new ways to get fans into the seats at Bball games?

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Posted: 16 February 2013 01:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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I don’t think I have ever seen Slappy and Tickle got at each other…..This is epic!.....and over Clemson Basketball….LMAO

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“I remember when I was coaching down at Florida, we would always lose kids in recruiting battles to Clemson. I would tell my coaches that we shouldn’t be losing kids to Clemson. Charlie Strong responded ‘coach have you ever actually been to Clemson?’ I hadn’t but I’ll tell you what, I’ve been here now and I get it. This is an exceptional, special place.”

-Urban Myer, Sept 17th, 2011 while calling the Clemson Auburn Game. Clemson won 38-24

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Posted: 16 February 2013 07:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Tickle: the basketball program needs a lot of help from the administration to put Clemson in a position to win consistently at a high level. Maybe you feel all it takes is a coach who enspouses a run and gun philosophy. I disagree. If you get rid of BB, you have to start over with a new style per you. Not an ideal scenario when most knowledgeable fans see that he can coach and we’re getting better.

BB doesn’t play the typical AAU “game"and it takes longer to get players when you’re not getting recruits thru the standard “enhanced” methodology. If BB can’t put a better team on the court by 2015, I’ll agree to going a different direction. However, lets be fair to him, the program and players by allowing him ample opportunity to build a winner. Heck, we let Bowden stay here forever to win 8 games a year.

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Posted: 17 February 2013 12:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Orange&Purple; - 16 February 2013 07:10 PM

Tickle: the basketball program needs a lot of help from the administration to put Clemson in a position to win consistently at a high level. Maybe you feel all it takes is a coach who enspouses a run and gun philosophy. I disagree. If you get rid of BB, you have to start over with a new style per you. Not an ideal scenario when most knowledgeable fans see that he can coach and we’re getting better.

BB doesn’t play the typical AAU “game"and it takes longer to get players when you’re not getting recruits thru the standard “enhanced” methodology. If BB can’t put a better team on the court by 2015, I’ll agree to going a different direction. However, lets be fair to him, the program and players by allowing him ample opportunity to build a winner. Heck, we let Bowden stay here forever to win 8 games a year.

We kept Bowden because he was head and shoulder above what we had just sent packing and 8 wins a year was welcomed with open arms.  He also beat SC like a rag doll while he was there.  Apples and oranges.

Thanks for the sneak in there and attacking me calling me unknowledgable about the game I played and watched all my life.  BB might could do well at Michigan State, Illinois, Indiana, or somewhere simlar, but he won’t succeed at Clemson.  He doesn’t motivate the team and that’s why the attendance has slacked off and that’s why we can go out get rung out like a wet towel at Virgina and why we’ve lost 3 games to D2 SC school’s in the past 2 years now.

We will never out shoot UNC, Duke, Syracuse, ND, or Lvl (when they come in) and we find it hard to keep up with Virginia, NC State, FSU, and Miami. 

You can wait until 2015 to make up your mind, but I tell you again that while he could be a decent coach at the right shool, that fit is not Clemson.

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Posted: 17 February 2013 01:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Worked the national Iptay meeting tonight in Clemson.  Basketball Highlights: BB basically begged for patience, but I did feel at ease listening to him explain the position of the program.  Also, word is the debate is raging, littlejohn Reno or brand new arena…..hearing brand new arena is leading.  Basically even AD said basketball needed some focus.  My personal problem with the team is not the coach, I like BB.  It’s me seeing how lazy our seniors can be, one game they are superstars, the next they are flat.

Off topic but football highlights:  Dabo solidified my support for him overall, he also called the basketball program a “donkey in the Kentucky derby” and led that no matter how good of a coach BB is it will continue to be a donkey until time, money, and effort are put into it.  He also stated that yes, in fact he was dreaming of Pasedena this year and is encouraging the team to dream big but reminds them they have to work for it.  Tajh Boyd said, “If you enjoyed the chickfila bowl…..wait until this year.”

Go Tigers!

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2014 BCS Orange Bowl Champions
Clemson 40 Ohio St 35

“First team from the state of South Carolina to win a BCS bowl” - Dabo Swinney

If you’re happy with good enough, then good enough is what you’ll be. Greatness requires the expectation of excellence.

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Posted: 17 February 2013 04:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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If we have the money for it fine but lets not hurt anything we need for football for bball.  Personally I think we need to change where our student section is first.  All the major programs have the TV sideline filled with students to make it a tough environment.  Anyone know what the renovation plans consist of?

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Posted: 17 February 2013 10:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Tickle: I did NOT attack you in any manner. Read what I wrote and not what your eyes saw in my response.
We just DISAGREE, it’s not personal.

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Posted: 17 February 2013 08:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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We sure enjoy close games…..

Up by 2 on Miami with 2:35 to play.

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“First team from the state of South Carolina to win a BCS bowl” - Dabo Swinney

If you’re happy with good enough, then good enough is what you’ll be. Greatness requires the expectation of excellence.

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