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Boy Scouts On The Verge of Chapter 11
Posted: 14 December 2018 02:49 PM   [ Ignore ]
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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boy-scouts-america-may-file-bankruptcy-due-costs-sex-abuse-n947576

This is a tough one to deal with as an adult leader in the BSA with a child in the program.

I’ve read about as much data as I can find on this and it appears they need to find a way to deal with the lawsuits.  From what I’ve read, Chapter 11 essentially would end the lawsuits and settlements would be negotiated.  I am not a legal scholar but that’s what I gather.

The BSA has been under assault from just about all sides trying force them to bend the knee to their social agenda and it is taking its toll.

The BSA still has assets of around 1.5 Billion in G-Bonds and stocks along with 450 million in land fro what I have been able to put together and do not want to see a pause in the program dealing with these lawsuits.

The liberals seemed to be leaving us alone because they got what they wanted in forcing LGBT people in the program at all levels…Ironically we haven’t seen a spike in membership from this lot….that was never their agenda.  It was capitulation…..Of course, the conservatives have left the program and to join alternative programs like Trail Life USA and the LDS Church is completely pulling out to start their own Boy Scout type program.

All I can say is my son has only 2 ranks left to make Eagle scout which I am projecting about 2 years or so…I hope the program will still be around so he can finish.

 

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Posted: 14 December 2018 10:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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There was never going to be a spike in that membership.  It’s not that big of a demographic and despite how “unique” many of that type try to be they still conform to the social standard, which is not BSA material. 

It sounds like if they had protected the kids better they wouldn’t be in this mess.  They gotta do what they gotta do to fix it. Don’t get all PSU or Catholic on us. 

Why do you value the Eagle Badge so much?  Your pride in your son and benchmarks of his accomplishments shouldn’t be measured by others (BSA) they should be measured by you.  If you have decided to align your judgement of merit with BSA standards that is fine but in reality the badge is meaningless.  The true accomplishment is the skill and experience.  As a father you can personally ensure he achieves those skills with or without BSA or a badge.  Also as a father you can show your own merit as a mentor and community leader by teaching these skills independently to others.  It may be harder without the structure but this is America and opportunity is there for the taking.  As with many things in life your drive dictates the results more than your circumstance, particularly for marathon achievements as opposed to sprints. 

 

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Posted: 15 December 2018 08:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Ancient Orange - 14 December 2018 10:33 PM

There was never going to be a spike in that membership.  It’s not that big of a demographic and despite how “unique” many of that type try to be they still conform to the social standard, which is not BSA material. 

It sounds like if they had protected the kids better they wouldn’t be in this mess.  They gotta do what they gotta do to fix it. Don’t get all PSU or Catholic on us. 

Why do you value the Eagle Badge so much?  Your pride in your son and benchmarks of his accomplishments shouldn’t be measured by others (BSA) they should be measured by you.  If you have decided to align your judgement of merit with BSA standards that is fine but in reality the badge is meaningless.  The true accomplishment is the skill and experience.  As a father you can personally ensure he achieves those skills with or without BSA or a badge.  Also as a father you can show your own merit as a mentor and community leader by teaching these skills independently to others.  It may be harder without the structure but this is America and opportunity is there for the taking.  As with many things in life your drive dictates the results more than your circumstance, particularly for marathon achievements as opposed to sprints. 

I am quite content with my parental skills when I see how my son is doing in life thank you. He’s a straight A student with as kind of a heart as you could hope for and is liked by just about everyone I have seen.  He provides no drama to my wife and I and I couldn’t have asked for a better son. When I grow up I want to be just like him!  Connecting my parental views to how I feel about scouting was not cool at all. Like all experiences in life, the BSA is just one piece of a bigger thread into the tapestry of life.  What the idiots at the Executive level are doing has no impact on the normal day to day Troop activities we do with our group of parents and boys. The BSA Program is fine if people would just leave us the hell alone.

I cannot tell you how many adults I have spoken to over the years that left scouting early that has told me that one of there greatest regrets is not finishing the program and earning the Eagle Scout rank. Secondly, this is a goal my son wants and I support.  He loves the program, he loves the friends he has made that will be lifelong friends and looks forward to every event we do.  It is my sons desire to earn the Eagle Rank and at an early age.  Since when did motivation to finish what you started become a negative? I thought that was considered a positive trait at one time.

With all of that said if my son wanted to end the scouts and it made sense I would support it.  But it would have to be something really unexpected at this point because of the reasons I just mentioned.  He is only 2 ranks short of Eagle and I would not let him walk away from that at this point without good cause. 


I am going guess that you don’t know just how hard it is to earn the Eagle Rank.  the last set of stats I saw stated that only around 4-5 percent of boys that were in the program competed the Eagle Rank.  I have also seen stats that less than 1 percent of boys that earned the Eagle Scout Rank ever have to appear before a judge due to some trouble with the law.  Then there is some of the perks that come with the rank.  It can be an advantage on a job resume or a college application.  Even people enlisting in the armed forces receive a rank hike at the beginning if they were an Eagle Scout. 

I am not going to get into a infomercial on scouting.  All I can say is that I feel its one of the best youth programs for boys between the ages of 6-18 that teaches boys life skills and leaderships skills that will prepare them for life.  If a parent could do it all as you seem to think, then we would home school them all and not allow anyone else to teach them anything I guess.

 

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I’ve SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It’s a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing “I’m an Oscar Meyer Wiener”.

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Posted: 15 December 2018 08:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Ancient: I don’t know if you’re just ignorant about Scouting or just trying to be a jerk but your comments were very inappropriate and frankly wrong. As an Eagle Scout myself, I assure you it means something to the young man that achieves this rank. The fact that you demean it doesn’t lessen its value or importance.

My guess is you’re a left wing “progressive” that knows little of what you’re talking about and see little value in anything that holds traditional values and ethics.

Signed,

Meaningless Eagle Scout

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Posted: 15 December 2018 08:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Orange&Purple; - 15 December 2018 08:43 AM

Ancient: I don’t know if you’re just ignorant about Scouting or just trying to be a jerk but your comments were very inappropriate and frankly wrong. As an Eagle Scout myself, I assure you it means something to the young man that achieves this rank. The fact that you demean it doesn’t lessen its value or importance.

My guess is you’re a left wing “progressive” that knows little of what you’re talking about and see little value in anything that holds traditional values and ethics.

Signed,

Meaningless Eagle Scout

O&P:  Congrats on being an Eagle.  I know how hard it was for you and how much pride you carry in that accomplishment.  BTW, what did you do for your Eagle Service Project?

Speaking of community service, people not familiar with the program have no idea of how many hours over the years of community service the Scouts give back as it is part of the requirements in the program.

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I’ve SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It’s a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing “I’m an Oscar Meyer Wiener”.

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Posted: 15 December 2018 01:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Neither one of you understood a word I said.  I don’t have a problem with BSA.  I don’t really care much either way if they do or don’t let girl, trans, or gays in.  I think excluding people from a learning opportunity is a little small minded and counter intuitive but there are other avenues for BSA type learning so in the scheme of things it doesn’t matter either way. 

The way you measure the worth of something is up to you.  In this scenario I call you to question if the badge it what means something or if the knowledge gained, the experiences lived, and the cultivation of your sons core values are the true accomplishment.  If I went and bought an Eagle scout badge and printed some certificate with my name on it it wouldn’t mean shit to anyone.  However it’s no different from what BSA did for your Eagle badge.  So in reality the badge is worthless.  The work you and your son put in validates the badge, not the other way around.  Just like the work he put into being an honor roll student and knowledge he gained is the true value of his certificates.  In your work place I doubt people constantly ask if you are an Eagle scout or what your GPA was in HS or College but the attributes you gained in those institutions should be evident to them. 

Motivation to finish what you started isn’t something bad but as we mature our goals and motivations change in life.  All I’m suggesting is that if the BSA program were to fall that it could be growing opportunity for your son.  If recognition from BSA was what he valued then maybe he’s out of luck.  If person growth is what he values the opportunity is always there for him (and you and me).  This may be a good opportunity to lay the foundation for a shift in what motivates him which will make the transition easier down the road if the worse case scenario comes to fruition.  I would argue that him having the perseverance to accomplishing the milestones needed to be an Eagle without the actual recognition from the program is a greater accomplishment in itself.  Maybe John Wooden’s words apply here.  “The true test of a man’s character is what he does when no one is watching.” “Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are.” 

I’m sure there are a few perks like you mentioned but if getting one more line on your resume or a slight rank boost in the military are what you value in the badge the YOU are the one devaluing the badge. 

I will admit that I’m not overly familiar with the BSA grading program.  But if being and Eagle is based on knowledge, experience, integrity, and development of youth (or adults) than that opportunity is and has always been there with or without BSA.  Great men and accomplishment is not something exclusive to boy scouts.

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Posted: 15 December 2018 01:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Admittedly I have not kept up with BSA after being in it.  So I don’t know all of the details.  But I can say I enjoyed my time in it and value a lot of it still.  Even when it was not the coolest thing to be in during high school as I approached the end.  Agreed with O&P in his post.  Also, last I checked the military still values the Eagle Scout rank.  It still gives you an immediate rank coming out of bootcamp.

-Signed Eagle Scout and Former Marine who used Eagle Scout to get a little bit of extra money and ahead of my peers early on in the process.

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Posted: 15 December 2018 03:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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I will admit that I’m not overly familiar with the BSA grading program.


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I’ve SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It’s a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing “I’m an Oscar Meyer Wiener”.

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Posted: 15 December 2018 04:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Then do explain what it takes to get an Eagle.

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Posted: 15 December 2018 04:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Ancient Orange - 15 December 2018 04:01 PM

Then do explain what it takes to get an Eagle.

That should have been your opening statement….If you really wanted to know what it takes to be an Eagle Scout the information is readily available on the internet.  I have no desire to answer rhetorical questions to someone that clearly has no interest in the program outside of besmirching people who see value in what it offers to our youth.

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I’ve SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It’s a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing “I’m an Oscar Meyer Wiener”.

Edgar Friendly….

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Posted: 21 December 2018 04:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Orange&Purple; - 15 December 2018 08:43 AM

Ancient: I don’t know if you’re just ignorant about Scouting or just trying to be a jerk but your comments were very inappropriate and frankly wrong. As an Eagle Scout myself, I assure you it means something to the young man that achieves this rank. The fact that you demean it doesn’t lessen its value or importance.

My guess is you’re a left wing “progressive” that knows little of what you’re talking about and see little value in anything that holds traditional values and ethics.

Signed,

Meaningless Eagle Scout

And you wonder why the Boy Scouts are dying? Nice response.

My guess is you’re a right wing “social conservative” that knows little of the values you claim to uphold, acts directly in violation of those supposed values and ethics and seems oblivious to that fact.

People don’t like hypocritical frauds, but hey keep talking about ethics and values while you have your hero get up in front of the jamboree and talk about cocaine fueled sex parties. I think it really helps when scouts chant “Trump” and “Lock her up” in other scouts faces. You know traditional values just as Jesus said.

I can tell you we left the program this year and don’t miss it a bit. You would think that you guys would realize that the only thing killing the scouts is people like YOU!

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Posted: 21 December 2018 06:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Scouting is not for everyone.  It requires a lot of commitment from the scout and the families and sometime the things going on in each person’s life may not be compatible.  Sometimes the Scout just doesn’t like the program or does it for a while and wants to do other things.  All quite normal.

I can appreciate Pines views because he and his family participated in the program.  I have a problem with people that know nothing about the program yet have all of these opinions based on soundbites they are getting from other people that probably have not participated in the program.

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I’ve SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It’s a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing “I’m an Oscar Meyer Wiener”.

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Posted: 21 December 2018 06:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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CU_Tigers4life - 21 December 2018 06:31 PM

Scouting is not for everyone.  It requires a lot of commitment from the scout and the families and sometime the things going on in each person’s life may not be compatible.  Sometimes the Scout just doesn’t like the program or does it for a while and wants to do other things.  All quite normal.

I can appreciate Pines views because he and his family participated in the program.  I have a problem with people that know nothing about the program yet have all of these opinions based on soundbites they are getting from other people that probably have not participated in the program.

I actually watched a quick video on becoming an eagle before commenting and intend to do a little more research before commenting more in detail.  The fact that you got butthurt about my views, which I still feel you don’t comprehend, and didn’t want to explain to me why an Eagle is so special tells a lot about your emotional connection to the matter.  Or you are incapable of defending why the scout badge is important or exclusive to the scouts. 

I haven’t listened to a single soundbite about scouts since I don’t know when.  The link you gave and a youtube video on Eagles is all I’ve seen so I literally have zero outside influences. 

I was waiting for Pines to weight in as he may be able to save me some precious time.  Pines, do you get what I’m saying?  Do you agree with my analysis? 

 

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Posted: 21 December 2018 07:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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If you are going to do anything in life such as school, work, marriage, etc, I feel you should strive to be the best you can be.  I will add that the journey a Scout has to make to earn the rank (not badge) of Eagle Scout is probably more important than the actual achievement. 

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I’ve SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It’s a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing “I’m an Oscar Meyer Wiener”.

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Posted: 27 December 2018 05:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Ancient Orange - 21 December 2018 06:59 PM
CU_Tigers4life - 21 December 2018 06:31 PM

Scouting is not for everyone.  It requires a lot of commitment from the scout and the families and sometime the things going on in each person’s life may not be compatible.  Sometimes the Scout just doesn’t like the program or does it for a while and wants to do other things.  All quite normal.

I can appreciate Pines views because he and his family participated in the program.  I have a problem with people that know nothing about the program yet have all of these opinions based on soundbites they are getting from other people that probably have not participated in the program.

I actually watched a quick video on becoming an eagle before commenting and intend to do a little more research before commenting more in detail.  The fact that you got butthurt about my views, which I still feel you don’t comprehend, and didn’t want to explain to me why an Eagle is so special tells a lot about your emotional connection to the matter.  Or you are incapable of defending why the scout badge is important or exclusive to the scouts. 

I haven’t listened to a single soundbite about scouts since I don’t know when.  The link you gave and a youtube video on Eagles is all I’ve seen so I literally have zero outside influences. 

I was waiting for Pines to weight in as he may be able to save me some precious time.  Pines, do you get what I’m saying?  Do you agree with my analysis? 

 

Sorry took some time off for Christmas…I do get what you are saying but I also think there is a lot of intrinsic value to the rank of Eagle Scout both for what it forces you to do to earn it, and for the external recognition it gives you. We live in a world where resumes matter and Eagle Scout says you have achieved something important.

My problem with the Scouts is that the people and organization is so filled with conservative culture warriors that are so eager to fight battles about gays and girls and other stuff that they have ruined the program by forcing you to think a certain way in order to be a “real” Scout. Some of you guys cannot leave politics out of whatever you do. You just have to “own the libs” which apparently has become the guiding principle of conservatism these days.

See the post I responded to for an example.

Plus Scouts and Sports are inevitably in conflict due to time constraints. That was one of our problems also.

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Posted: 27 December 2018 06:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Sorry took some time off for Christmas…I do get what you are saying but I also think there is a lot of intrinsic value to the rank of Eagle Scout both for what it forces you to do to earn it, and for the external recognition it gives you. We live in a world where resumes matter and Eagle Scout says you have achieved something important.

My problem with the Scouts is that the people and organization is so filled with conservative culture warriors that are so eager to fight battles about gays and girls and other stuff that they have ruined the program by forcing you to think a certain way in order to be a “real” Scout. Some of you guys cannot leave politics out of whatever you do. You just have to “own the libs” which apparently has become the guiding principle of conservatism these days.

See the post I responded to for an example.

Plus Scouts and Sports are inevitably in conflict due to time constraints. That was one of our problems also.

Pines, I agree 100%.  The problem with the BSA having essentially franchises in their chartering sponsors, you can have a lot of variation from Troop to Troop in how it’s organized and run.  Some are really efficient and some are a mess. 

We do lose some to sports..We do have a few boys that just do scouting when they are not in season because they like the program and make up a lot of lost ground at summer camp.

The BSA is certainly going through a cultural transition. The Scouts themselves are far more comfortable with the changes in society than the adults.  As girls become more integrated this evolution will continue.

I appreciate your insights.  The program is a little hard to describe to one that doesn’t understand the 7 Boys Scout ranks with all of their requirements, the minimum of 21 merit badges required to earn eagle, all of the community service hours, camping hours, hiking hours, holding positions of leadership, teaching other younger scouts essential skills is a big job for a young man.  (I’m not even count the 5 years of Cub Scouting available)

 

 

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I’ve SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It’s a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing “I’m an Oscar Meyer Wiener”.

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