I went back and read some of my previous posts. I must say I’m a little different now. Although I do have religious faith…I must admit it doesn’t play as big a part of my life as it did at one time. The logical part of my mind thinks it rediculous to say dinosaurs were fake. I can’t think of why anyone would dare to argue that. Scientific inquiry and discovery has so advanced human thinking and existence that the fact that religion so often finds itself in opposition to those advances leads me to think one is misguided.
Could it possibly be that science is the explanation of God’s ways?
Winner. Great call, SoPines. Reading two excellent books right now that address the issue of religion vs. science: The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith by Lee Strobel. Admittedly, Strobel is now a Christian, but at one time he was an agnostic. However, the book interviews Ph.D’s from all over the country in areas such as bio-physics, chemistry, bio-chemistry, anthropology, ancient history, philosophy, and religion just to name a few. Without giving away too much, the moral of the story is that religion and science can and do live and work hand in hand. Basically, the more you study religion the more questions can be asked WRT science and the deeper you get into the science the more proof exists for a Supreme Being.
Highly, highly, recommend the book—especially if you are an educated Christian. It’s impossible not to have doubts about God, Jesus, and Christianity and perfectly normal to do so (even Billy Graham expressed doubt at one point in his life) if you look at science only from, say the exterior, and never attempt to understand it at its root. It is kind of like reading the cliff notes version of a book. You get the basics but not the details. Also, scientists are foolish if they don’t consider logic, history, and anthropology in correlation when they promote a scientific theory.
I will say that anyone that thinks the Earth has only been around 7,000 years is silly, and this is coming from someone raised Southern Baptist.
WRT to the topic, however, I will also say this: Some Bible scholars believe the Bible mentions dinosaurs, but not by name. (Keep in mind the word “dinosaur” did not exist when the Bible was written.)
Job 40:15-24: 15 ¶ Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength [is] in his loins, and his force [is] in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones [are as] strong pieces of brass; his bones [are] like bars of iron.
19 He [is] the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his
sword to approach [unto him].
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him [with] their shadow; the willows of the brook
compass him about.
23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, [and] hasteth not: he trusteth that he
can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 He taketh it with his eyes: [his] nose pierceth through snares
Job is the oldest book in the Bible. It dates to 1500 BC. The author is unknown. Some believe it to be Moses others think it was based on a Sumerian legend. Regardless if the story is real or legend, it places a man living at the time of large beasts described similarly to a brontosaurus. Is this possible? Maybe. I’ve never seen any evidence that says cannot be.
Could it possibly be that science is the explanation of God’s ways?
Winner. Great call, SoPines. Reading two excellent books right now that address the issue of religion vs. science: The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith by Lee Strobel. Admittedly, Strobel is now a Christian, but at one time he was an agnostic. However, the book interviews Ph.D’s from all over the country in areas such as bio-physics, chemistry, bio-chemistry, anthropology, ancient history, philosophy, and religion just to name a few. Without giving away too much, the moral of the story is that religion and science can and do live and work hand in hand. Basically, the more you study religion the more questions can be asked WRT science and the deeper you get into the science the more proof exists for a Supreme Being.
Highly, highly, recommend the book—especially if you are an educated Christian. It’s impossible not to have doubts about God, Jesus, and Christianity and perfectly normal to do so (even Billy Graham expressed doubt at one point in his life) if you look at science only from, say the exterior, and never attempt to understand it at its root. It is kind of like reading the cliff notes version of a book. You get the basics but not the details. Also, scientists are foolish if they don’t consider logic, history, and anthropology in correlation when they promote a scientific theory.
I will say that anyone that thinks the Earth has only been around 7,000 years is silly, and this is coming from someone raised Southern Baptist.
WRT to the topic, however, I will also say this: Some Bible scholars believe the Bible mentions dinosaurs, but not by name. (Keep in mind the word “dinosaur” did not exist when the Bible was written.)
Job 40:15-24: 15 ¶ Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength [is] in his loins, and his force [is] in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones [are as] strong pieces of brass; his bones [are] like bars of iron.
19 He [is] the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his
sword to approach [unto him].
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him [with] their shadow; the willows of the brook
compass him about.
23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, [and] hasteth not: he trusteth that he
can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 He taketh it with his eyes: [his] nose pierceth through snares
Job is the oldest book in the Bible. It dates to 1500 BC. The author is unknown. Some believe it to be Moses others think it was based on a Sumerian legend. Regardless if the story is real or legend, it places a man living at the time of large beasts described similarly to a brontosaurus. Is this possible? Maybe. I’ve never seen any evidence that says cannot be.
Basically, the more you study religion the more questions can be asked WRT science and the deeper you get into the science the more proof exists for a Supreme Being.
I don’t know about proof, but I get the point. As one studies the more.. complicated phenomena, a certain appreciation for the universe in which we are blessed to live does develop. I don’t think there is direct proof at this point that there is a supreme being, but it certainly wouldn’t surprise me, especially given how freaking complicated the universe is. It doesn’ t make sense to me that the universe is because the universe is, and there is, in my opinion, a deeper principle to it all. Just don’t know what it is. Probably “42”.
I refuse to believe that at any point man or any pretense of man walked on earth with dinosaurs. The powers to be in the religious world have never even broached the subject to my knowledge. Never have human or humanlike remains been found in the same geologic strata as dinosaur fossils. Evidence of plant life, smaller life, aquatic life has all been found, but no human life. I know at this point everything with regard to this is theory, but in a world of see it to believe it No one’s seen it yet. Faith is amazing and powerful. Religious faith is that on an exponential level. I don’t know who here has studied or studies religion. I’ve taken maybe two courses at college. What sticks out to me is that since the very inception of religion the evidence of human effects (social, political, etc…) is blatantly stamped all over it. I’ll not pretend to be an expert or qualified for informative debate. That’s just my observation. To that end I think an individual or group of individuals can make a passage fit their argument regardless of what it is.
The original topic has been answered many different ways since the original question. I believe dinosaurs walked the earth for a longer period than humans have walked the earth up to this point.
Basically, the more you study religion the more questions can be asked WRT science and the deeper you get into the science the more proof exists for a Supreme Being.
I don’t know about proof, but I get the point. As one studies the more.. complicated phenomena, a certain appreciation for the universe in which we are blessed to live does develop. I don’t think there is direct proof at this point that there is a supreme being, but it certainly wouldn’t surprise me, especially given how freaking complicated the universe is. It doesn’ t make sense to me that the universe is because the universe is, and there is, in my opinion, a deeper principle to it all. Just don’t know what it is. Probably “42”.
I think I fall in your category. I agree with every thing you’ve said in this. Really well articulated.
Of course there were dinosaurs. Jesus would ride them to get around faster
See…. this is the kind of stuff that gives anyone who supports Creationism (or even aspects of it) a bad name. I
t is now thought as common fact (at least as reported in public schools) that an asteroid hit Earth and destroyed the ecosystem and the Dinosaurs some 65 million yrs ago, approximately. Interestingly, though, this is nothing more than a theory with little to no scientific evidence to support it. However, what is proven through written history of multiple ancient cultures was a devastating Flood of some kind. It’s unclear if this flood resulted from rain, world-wide tsunamis caused by earthquakes, a large asteroid shower, or a combo of all or some of these things or others. What is also known, is the worlds ecosystem greatly changed after it wrt climate, plants, and, actually, the longevity of man. According to the Bible, man did not live as long.
Why? There are several theories. One and most obvous being the change in the ecosystem. The natural forces (gravity, gases, plants, etc) were not as gentle and, therefore, harder on man causing his demise. Some scientists have theorized that the Earth’s axis moved (similar to what NASA reported following the huge earthquake in Chile a few weeks ago, interestingly.) Another theory stated that the rotation of the earth was caused to speed up causing a day to pass quicker, therefore, explaining why man did not live as long. IDK. Neither do scientists for sure.
I guess it’s very possible that dinosaurs lived with man until the time of the Great Flood (whatever that was.)
As is also commonly excepted to explain dinosaurs in the time of Creation a “day” could have been thousands, millions, or even billions of years at a time for that first “week” of creation. That would explain a lot of things. The reason that this is a point of contention even in the Christian circles is the word that is used in Genesis 1 translates to a “24 hour day” as we know it in Hebrew. However, the same word is used in Genesis 5:5 where it states that “a day is a thousand years.” Was is it literally a thousand, or is thousand just the representation of a large number—like millions or billions—which may have been difficult to express or fathom by the common man in 1500 BC when the first books of the Bible were written? Nevertheless, animal (dinosaur) were created on the same “day” but if a “day” was 500 million years, for example, then they could have been created 250 million years apart. Again, IDK. All theories.
The bottom line to be a Christian requires faith. Man does not nor will ever have the answer to everything. Doubt or questioning does not prevent you from being a Christian. Even Christ himself questioned God as he hung on the Cross and asked why he had been forsaken. We are not capable of understanding God’s capacity or reasoning.
But the one constant is faith. Please, remember that God created man for companionship. What kind of companionship would it be if God had fully shown himself to us at all times and all places? We would not choose to love God but would be kind of forced to love God by God. In human terms would your love for your spouse, significant other, etc. be as strong if you had no choice in the matter? No way. Why would it be any different for God?
Maybe this was off tangent a little, but it seemed to me like this topic was being used to, ultimately, question the validity of Christianity and the existence of God. So I thought I would try to address both as best as I can.
“I guess it’s very possible that dinosaurs lived with man until the time of the Great Flood (whatever that was.)”
If humans lived with dinosaurs, human and dinosaur remains would originate from the same time period, not millions of years apart.
If you are of the belief that birds are simply the evolved descendants of dinosaurs, then you may have a point.
Sorry, if I was unclear. I didn’t intend to say that’s my view. I was trying to say that is one of the theories (which I find somewhat reasonable, however.) The other theory I cited easily explains this because a single “day” would have consisted of thousands, millions, and even billions of years. But back to theory one….....
Just because dinosaur fossils have been found that are millions of years old and human fossils haven’t does not mean that humans did not exist during that period as well. Perhaps humans were greatly outnumbered by dinosaurs during this period therefore greatly enhancing the fact that dinosaur bones would be found and not human. Perhaps humans were smart enough to stay away from lava flows, volcanoes, “hot tar pits,” extremely muddy riverbeds, etc. (things that science has shown preserve fossils) whereas dinosaurs were not and plants cannot help where they seed. IDK…. just thinking about possible explanations.
The earliest human fossils found are just under 200,000 years old. Maybe the situation that I described above was reversed and by this point in history man greatly out-numbered dinosaurs therefore increasing the chance that man fossils are found and not dinosaur. Again…. IDK….. just more food for thought.
As I’ve stated on here several times, I am a HUGE proponent of religion and science working hand in hand. I personally believe the study of science is the study of God’s way. What I find arrogant is people that are black and white on this issue from both sides. Science has basically shown beyond argument that the earth is billions of years old. FACT. So obviously the purely Creationist proponents are wrong. The Earth is WAAAAAY older than approximatley 5,700 years. LOL.
However, science has also shown that there is an unexplainable problem wrt life and creation that non-living matter somehow became living. The chemical duplication required has only been done in a laboratory and was done with gases that are not and appear to never have been present in the Earth’s atmosphere in the right amounts. Even then to get the proteins to line-up in the required manner to create DNA is something astronomical like like 1:100 billion. Seems to be a far cry from chance, don’t you think? So the problem of explaining life from a purely scientific stance is nearly impossible on not just one, but two fronts. FACT. Therefore, the pure evolutionists are flat out wrong as well.
Didn’t mean to lecture. I just don’t understand why these two sides can’t give and take and learn from one another. Science may help explain the Bible (God’s Word) and God’s Word may provide large leads in future scientifice discovery.
I refuse to believe that at any point man or any pretense of man walked on earth with dinosaurs. The powers to be in the religious world have never even broached the subject to my knowledge. Never have human or humanlike remains been found in the same geologic strata as dinosaur fossils. Evidence of plant life, smaller life, aquatic life has all been found, but no human life. I know at this point everything with regard to this is theory, but in a world of see it to believe it No one’s seen it yet. Faith is amazing and powerful. Religious faith is that on an exponential level. I don’t know who here has studied or studies religion. I’ve taken maybe two courses at college. What sticks out to me is that since the very inception of religion the evidence of human effects (social, political, etc…) is blatantly stamped all over it. I’ll not pretend to be an expert or qualified for informative debate. That’s just my observation. To that end I think an individual or group of individuals can make a passage fit their argument regardless of what it is.
The original topic has been answered many different ways since the original question. I believe dinosaurs walked the earth for a longer period than humans have walked the earth up to this point.
I think your 95% correct. I caution you, though: Don’t focus on those who preport to be Christians but those who actually are/were Christians. What political, monetary, social gain did the early disciples gain—especially after Christ’s crucifixion? None. In fact, they were considered societal outcasts, lost their wealth, families, were imprisoned, and all but one executed. Again, for what gain? Nothing…... other than they believed so strongly in what they spoke of. That was pure. That makes me believe that what Christianity really stands for is pure and real. It’s reflected yet today still in some modern folks: Mother Teresa, Billy Graham, etc.
But, yeah, it’s been whored out for money over the last 2000 years like everything else.
^ The argument between Christianity of secular thought will go on until one gives up. I don’t think either will. It just seems frustrating to me that at almost every turn scientific discovery and theory is argued by traditional Christian authorities. My last sentence of the quotation sums up my personal thoughts on the original topic. I’ve seen, read, and been told of scientific evidence to support that idea. Any other would have to deny that Physical evidence, and place a supposition on faith. That is a personal choice and American freedom I’m glad we all have.
